[23:33] 1.5pts for a default loss.... whut? lol should be more like 0 [23:39] no as its 1 point for a loss [23:39] and .5 bonus as it counts as 1 cap for them [00:52] has anyone noticed how tiny multiplays tf2 group is compared to wireplays? [00:53] Crunchy teams that default should be penalised tbh, rather than taking points away from the team that could make the match etc [00:54] Thaldarin a loss will always give one point, thats the way it works, so if a default is a given its classed as a team losing, its a bit shit if you dont get that 1 point for a loss [00:55] the 0.5 is the bit that i'd be aiming at [00:55] as we all know every loss is bizarrely 1 point [00:55] its the current system set up Thaldarin [00:55] i dont see why a team that could have played and potentially got max bonus, gets 0.5 taken away for doing nothing wrong? [00:56] everything will be looked at and re assesed before season 3 anyway =) [00:57] another thing that confuses me [00:57] some games for s2 will be played next week, when season 3 starts. [00:57] no [00:57] re read the post [00:58] Season 3 planning will start as planned next week, there is a post here where the community are discussing some of their ideas for s3. [00:58] planning [00:58] Ah i see. [00:58] dont worry [00:58] so many people got confussed with that [00:58] poorly wrote for us speed readers :( [00:58] season 3 wont be till september [00:59] will season 3 mean more admins being able to make instant decisions rather than taking days and referring it to others? [01:00] ask it on the forums, admins are sleeping :p [01:00] lies x10 [01:00] i am league admooon [01:00] ;p [01:00] Thaldarin the main problem atm is the website only lets stevep and b0nes do the major stuff [01:00] admin never sleep# [01:01] been a few instances this season where rules state one thing yet admins take like 4 or 5 days to come to a decision [01:01] hopefully the site will be sorted soon and we will have access to all required stuff [01:01] yes Thaldarin as alot of the time we allow other clans to plead their case [01:01] having confidence in admins when that happens is a bit low [01:01] then when they say "im going to pass it to so and so" who then says "im going to pass it to so and so" [01:04] well all that is going to be sorted [01:04] were gonna start planning it all soon [01:04] i have a notepad document of things that need discussing so dont worry :P [01:05] i've not even come to admin bias and outside of game clan abuse yet ;p -blueyonder1.uk.quakenet.org:#wptf2- [01:05] Blackreign-i34 (~me@bob-kelso-44.121.236.85.event.multiplay.co.uk) joined the channel [01:08] zimri is not biased [01:09] and also thal you need to watch what you say, as you were throwing around some bad things the other day [01:10] everyones entitled to their opinions Thaldarin i understand that but theres no need to slag the admins off [01:11] i don't want to go in to the situation as it's closed, however zimri is biased and an admin should not get involved in an incident when they have very close ties with one clan which can be seen as bias [01:11] Thaldarin thats why he passed it onto me [01:11] Also Crunchy, ask me next time I've had 10 pints of cider like the other night =] [01:12] However he still stayed involved =\ [01:12] How can you have confidence in that? [01:12] because people kept asking him about the situation [01:12] Then it's a simple "Ask Crunchy. Sorry. Bye." [01:12] i wasnt about at the time [01:12] Then people have to wait, it's not hard is it? [01:13] but seriously call him a welsh twat again and you will be penalized [01:13] I never called him a Welsh Twat [01:13] Thaldarin you and nagash were both badgering about the situation [01:13] And oh, another match ban? Cool. [01:13] lol crunchy i spoke to him about interpolarity settings [01:14] i don't speak to him unless there really is no other option [01:15] as we all know every loss is bizarrely 1 point <--- if it bothers you, pretend you get 0 for a loss, 5 for a max. win, and mentally subtract 1 point from a team's score for every match they've played :P [01:15] I just fail to see how anyone can have confidence in an admin who can't detatch themselves from a situation in which they have close ties in, as no matter how pure you are or are not, there will be some degree of bias every time. [01:15] indeed fry, but it looks silly ;p [01:15] they're just numbers [01:15] it's the 0.5 thing that bothers me [01:16] Thaldarin that is a lie [01:16] eg. "we didnt turn up but hey, we knew we'd get thrased 8-0 and 8-0, atleast we got 1.5 and not 1.0!" [01:16] you did call zimri a welsh cunt [01:16] there's a whole thread in the forums about next seasons rules/setup [01:16] as an example fry, not that anyone would think that and do that [01:16] Crunchy indeed i did [01:16] I called him a welsh cunt [01:16] You said I called him a welsh twat, which I did not. [01:16] oh very funny :P [01:16] :D [01:16] i couldnt remember exactly what you said [01:16] /logs [01:17] but taking the piss out of someone cause they are from a certain country can be seen as racial abuse [01:17] also dont piss off the welsh as im also welsh ;) [01:17] that's not taking the piss out of people coming from a certain country [01:17] you called him a welsh cunt [01:17] at the very least it's plain-old-vanilla abuse, surely? [01:17] which is a direct dig at the welsh [01:17] I pointed out his physical and genetic attributes. [01:17] it's just narrowing down on what kind of cunt ;p [01:18] anyway dont call people names to start with, problem solved [01:18] indeed [01:18] If you find that as racial, go join the BNP. [01:18] Thaldarin shhh [01:18] god gotta love how wptf2 irc is busier at 1am :D [01:19] meh brings back old bytfc memories [01:19] chan was dead during the day too [01:19] i never was bytfc, was byns [01:19] byns was often very busy ;p [01:19] dunno why you're moaning about default scoring, ned kop and nag are happy and it's what's in the rules [01:20] nn [01:20] Frymaster it's not just about the situation of one clan. [01:20] i don't think a premier division clan would like to lose out by <0.5 of a point because of a default in which they could have won [01:21] for example [01:22] and looking at premier division with those points, it will be pretty tight [01:22] i don't think premier clan A would be happy losing out because premier clan B got a max-points default against C when they know it wouldn't have happened that way [01:23] whatever score you assign to the default, someone can say "we're being penalised coz it wouldn't have turned out like that" [01:23] premier b for example would be unhappy theyve come second to premier a because it wasnt their fault that the clan decided not to show up either. [01:23] completely penalising the defaulting team seems most logical [01:24] if A and B are competing for the top stop penalising C doesn't make a difference [01:24] fry go look at prem now [01:25] i have [01:25] I'm tired good luck with tf2 ping pong [01:25] it's that tight up the top that one of 3 teams could take it iirc [01:25] and the points margin isn't huge [01:25] exactly [01:25] if rasta defaulted against BR|, say, and you gace BR max points, KM could say it was unfair [01:25] which means a default win for one team who could get maximum, could mean they lose out and it's not their fault under current system. [01:26] whether or not you penalised rasta wouldn't affect the top at all [01:26] either way fry [01:26] if rasta defaulted against br right now [01:26] it wouldnt make a difference [01:26] but the 0.5 could make a difference between 2nd and 3rd with other clans eg. knights [01:26] and dcsb [01:27] ok, substitue them into the analogy, it still holds [01:27] although rasta is not a variable its a constant [01:27] the 0.5 would only make an effect if the clan does play rather than rasta who clearly dont [01:28] you're now making no sense [01:28] Right now looking at prem [01:28] because rasta havent actually played a game, been defaulted on all [01:29] The maximum points and the margin between all other clans is a constant for default wins. [01:29] Involving rasta. [01:29] jeez [01:29] If rasta played 2 games for example and then defaulted to other clans [01:29] not gaining the maximum could disadvantage other clans by a place [01:29] yes [01:29] that is what i don't agree with [01:30] if you got more complex with multiple teams defaulting and working the points out like a league, it would end up more clearer [01:30] but if you DO give out the maximum, it could disadvantage teams that played them and didn't score max [01:30] indeed. but logically, why would you give a defaulting team bonus points for not turning up? [01:31] its a strong argument for "why cant we have max points, get second instead of fourth? i mean they never turned up for us, they did for them two" [01:31] you've just switched argument [01:31] you were talking about the team not getting max points, now you're talking about the defaulting team not getting min points [01:32] and the defaulting team _CAN_ be penalised [01:32] that 1.5 can be adjusted down to 0 if the admins feels they were taking the piss [01:34] point is, ANY distribution of points you can come up with in a default, there's gonna be at least one clan (apart from the clan that defaulted) that can claim it's unfair * Lilitu [01:34] contemplates reading this wall o' text backlog * Lilitu [01:34] reconsiders. [01:35] :D [01:35] Why is all this league stuff in the regular channel btw? [01:36] cause Thaldarin is banned from wptf2l [01:36] apparently but i cant see it :S [01:37] Yeah [01:37] Zimri had some sort of random bitch fit [01:37] (17:43:18) • Zimri sets mode (+b *!*@host-85-236-104-95.multiplaydsl.co.uk) [01:37] (17:43:20) • You've been kicked by Zimri (Thaldarin) [01:37] thats BST [01:37] probably cause he's seen the logs of you abusing him [01:37] I abuse him regularly. [01:37] yeah but if you abuse an admin in their channel your bound to get banned [01:37] You're* [01:38] And considering it was 18hours onwards. [01:38] ty [01:38] And he was more than aware before [01:38] no need to be a grammar whore [01:38] A random bitch fit that far apart is pretty strange. [01:38] 'coz characterising an admin's actions as a "bitch fit" is sure to a) get the admin to reverse it, and b) get the other admins on your side... [01:39] nn frymaster [01:39] But hey if I am penalised for slagging of an admin, I don't see how that's any different to another member of a clan/channel abusing another clan in IRC for no good reason. [01:39] *off rather [01:40] it can be reported if need be [01:40] but if its irelevant to the league then we cant do anything about it [01:40] I don't think the issue is as much as reporting it but as something being done about it. [01:40] It was pretty relevant to the league and iirc it was dismissed. [01:40] Thaldarin we cant be in every clans irc room [01:41] so we dont always know if its going on [01:41] And with a clan knowing what someone is doing too, it seems pretty poor behaviour to be accepted. [01:41] That's what a variety of timestamped and dated logs are for Crunchy [01:41] exactly therefore it needs to be reported to us -dircproxy:#wptf2- [01:41] You disconnected [01:42] (01:39:19) (Thaldarin) It was pretty relevant to the league and iirc it was dismissed. <- [01:42] tbh i dont know what your on about [01:42] Crunchy let's say you're in clan A [01:42] And im in clan b [01:43] I come in to clan a's channel and call you all a bunch of tosspots, mummys boys, whatever etc. [01:43] right [01:44] well a clan going in and doing that has nothing to do with us [01:44] as that has no relevance to the league [01:44] but if they went in and said you were shit in our wireplay match what a bunch of wankers then by all means report it [01:44] However if it does have relevance to the league and it does highlight a certain situation between clan a and b? [01:44] Okay. [01:44] then you can report it [01:45] Y'see i find this problem that something similar has been reported and dismissed because "there are no rules surround it" [01:45] surrounding* [01:45] i agree the rules need to be alot more extensive [01:45] but the problem is the only reason the rules get read all the way through atm is cause they are short [01:45] so i think with long rules alot of clans wont read them [01:46] and for a start some didnt even read the rules this season [01:46] Wait. [01:46] It is in the rules. [01:46] Abuse to a member of the wptf2l team during a game, on irc or the forums is not acceptable. Clans and their members causing problems will not be tolerated and in some circumstances a league and/or public ban on any offenders could be implemented <- I seem to have skipped it. [01:47] take HN who pulled out for example, kept taking the piss out of us on the server [01:47] and then they started shooting through the gates [01:47] i mean wtf? [01:47] To be fair using map exploits is not highlighted in the rules [01:48] Although you would assume people would be fair [01:48] The use of "lame" or unconventional tactics is not forbidden in this league but however could be deemed as very un-sportsmanlike <- [01:48] thats more than a lame tactic tbh [01:48] now thats a stupid rule [01:48] but your right its not outlined but as i have stated everything is going to be re assessed [01:48] indeed crunchy however for that id ban it [01:49] as someone once told me, i could argue that a rag i have is made of solid gold [01:49] [01:45] u dont get pts for a default loss [01:49] and win [01:49] i stand corrected =) [01:49] technically b0nes is wrong and right [01:49] you get those points, then to have them penalised against you [01:49] yea, the loser gets 0, the winner 5.5 [01:50] i disagree with being given anything, i believe it should be a penalisation. [01:50] a default loss results in 5.5 for winner, 1.5 for loser. who then get docked 1.5 for a no show [01:50] well whats the point of giving the 1.5 if your gonna take it away? [01:50] its pointless [01:51] iirc maximum you can gain is 6.0 [01:51] which you're taking away from a clan to be able to achieve. [01:51] Crunchy it is pointless, but that seems to be the current system. [01:51] no no no a default they dont get any points at all is the way it works [01:51] if you look at rasta in prem [01:52] theyve had all defaults [01:52] doesnt count as a loss or anything its just 0 points [01:52] 9 penalty points [01:52] 6match points [01:52] 3bonus points [01:52] which is 6*1.5 For and Against [01:52] yes ok i guess thats the way the system works [01:52] but thats due to the calculation system in place [01:53] It stops the winning team reaching the maximum potential and it is not their fault [01:53] well if you have a problem with all of this there is a thread on the forums [01:53] =) [01:54] and woooo division 2 is now finished [01:54] problem is i cba with forums, i got in to it randomly ;p [01:54] well thats where were gonna listen mostly too [01:54] as its written down there and we can reference it at all times online [01:54] yes ir creates logs but some clients dont [01:55] just seems to me wptf2l was thrown together and not thought out? [01:55] wtf [01:55] not thought out [01:55] as i can see massive flaws and then expose the tiniest of cracks as big flaws =\ [01:55] right the years we have putr into developing it is nothing [01:55] stevep will love that [01:56] the guy spends every second of his free time developing for wireplay [01:56] Awesome. [01:56] Thaldarin tbh you seem like the sort of person that just loves to go through everything with a magniying glass just to find all the imperfections [01:56] Maybe we should get together in a brain-storming session. [01:56] nothing is perfect mate [01:56] we could use a fkin wordpress shit like etf2l tho, maybe that would be more ur teaste [01:56] Not at all. [01:56] Thaldarin that is what the forum is for [01:56] I find it easy to exploit things. [01:56] hey now, wordppress isnt shit :P [01:57] no but its lazy [01:57] So [01:57] as long as it works [01:57] How does rules and regulations relate to the way you post your website b0nes? [01:57] Maybe irrelevance is more your 'teaste'? [01:57] god ur anoying [01:57] Thaldarin stop beign a fucking grammar whore ffs [01:57] its called a MISTAKE [01:57] get a fucking life [01:58] Oh so I can't insult an admin [01:58] But an admin can insult me? [01:58] im not actually an admin in this room [01:58] You are of WPTF2 [01:58] so by all means report me =) [01:58] geesus [01:58] no the league admins are seperate [01:58] seriously Thaldarin [01:58] we've been told that from the start [01:58] Room is irrelevant =\ [01:59] the league is part of wireplay but its run as a seperate organization [01:59] hence why the wireplay admins arent involved in the elague other than steve bones and bury [01:59] however a league admin telling a league player to 'get a fucking life' is just as bad as a league player telling a league admin that he's a 'welsh cunt'; no? [01:59] and yes i spelt league wrong [01:59] the league is well organsied and put togther through a lot of hard work, it will continue to improve season to season and we will not need ur comments to help us on that [01:59] b0nes, Crunchy encouraged them [02:00] And sure get me together with stevep. [02:00] i dont think we need your input [02:00] Thaldarin your nitpicking everything we say, with grammar mistakes the way things are run, you really are asking for insults [02:00] insulting my bad spelling is insulting me [02:00] Crunchy i see massive holes and exploits in rules [02:01] yes i failed GCSE english [02:01] like what? [02:01] Put the uncanny grammar insult of yours aside [02:01] therefore when you take the piss out of my spelling it pisses me off [02:01] wheres the massive hole [02:01] it needs some tweaks mid season bbut thats the way it always goes down [02:01] but massive hole [02:02] the only one i see is between ur ears [02:02] Really? [02:03] There are some pretty big flaws with your own team following your own rules which have been seen this season in a variety of situations in just the division I am in. [02:03] Merc/24 hour rule accusations, cheat accusations, unco-operative clans. [02:03] well that wasnt to vague [02:03] hows that holes in the rules? [02:03] And it took days for an admin to come to a decision. [02:03] if people break them [02:04] Then as Crunchy rightly pointed out, map exploits are being allowed to be used. [02:04] take as long as we see fit [02:04] no Thaldarin they are not being allowed [02:04] • The use of "lame" or unconventional tactics is not forbidden in this league but however could be deemed as very un-sportsmanlike [02:04] • Unsporting tactics in extreme circumstances could result in the removal of that clan from the league [02:04] ^ That's a contra. [02:04] they were given a warning [02:04] It's a pretty big rule failure. [02:04] hows that a failure? [02:05] its a rule about not being a dick, one u cant understand [02:05] or a guideline [02:05] "You can use lame tactics"...."Lame tactics can remove you from the clan". [02:05] league* .. not clan. [02:05] in extreme conditions [02:05] i.e. spawn samping [02:05] camping* [02:05] Spawn camping is part of the game. [02:05] a heavy and medic may do it [02:05] Shooting through a grate isn't. [02:06] but if 2 engineers set up out side of spawn and hold em in for ages [02:06] that is getting a bit shit [02:06] It's a valid tactic. [02:06] well we havnt banned anyone for extreem lame tactics yet so they havnt been thought up [02:06] It's in no way an exploit in the map Crunchy [02:06] It's a design feature. [02:06] no were not on about exploits [02:06] Unlike grates which haven't been fixed when they said they were. [02:06] were on about lame tactics [02:06] i still see how its a MASSIVE HOLE IN THE RULEZ! [02:06] which is what spawn camping is [02:06] cant* [02:07] omg the rules r like so fkin bad, they r like written by a 2 yr old [02:07] Why is spawn camping a 'lame' tactic when it's a design feature of the game? [02:07] spawn camping is known as a lame tactic in most leagues but is allowed to an extent [02:07] That's like saying an uber rush is a lame tactic because it's designed in to the game and makes you invincible. [02:07] no its not [02:07] lol [02:07] how long have u played? [02:07] They're design features implemented in different ways. [02:08] this is a waste of my time, talk agin when u have a clue what ur on about yea [02:08] nn [02:08] Come back when you can read and understand game mechanics. [02:09] oh yea good one [02:09] i know nothing [02:09] shit i forgot [02:09] You did? Amazing. [02:09] thats why i run decent clan and a league, and have 8 years of doing it [02:10] You do? Fantastic. [02:10] Step outside once in a while. [02:10] Guys, you should calm down before this gets even more out of hand. [02:10] are u writting a book with all the. [02:10] i. [02:10] think. [02:10] Indeed Lilitu [02:10] u. [02:10] are. [02:10] spawn camping has always been lame Thaldarin on tfc jolt multiplay and wireplay used to ban people for excessive spawn camping on maps like 2fort [02:10] I apologise for rising to the occassion. [02:10] .... [02:10] Although it's nice to see how the head admin of a league is so insulting and aggressive =] [02:11] Thaldarin your goading him on [02:11] I am. [02:11] However he started insults out of a coherent argument. [02:11] And he's goading me in to insults which I am not going to do so. [02:11] So we're both as bad as each other as far as goading is concerned. [02:11] to an extent but you were insulting the league that he's running [02:12] therefore thats bound to get a response [02:12] Ask for input, doesn't mean you have to take nor listen to it. [02:12] However out right insulting doesn't help. [02:12] just coz im head admin dont mean i have to be civil to people like you, who are insulting and racist to my staff [02:13] who like to try and pick appart something u know nothing about [02:13] Zimri and I have not had what you call the most of fruitful of relationships, I am not racist and if you believe so follow up on your own rules. [02:13] ppl like u are just out to cause what trouble they can before finding a new toy to play with [02:13] Thaldarin calling someone a welsh cunt [02:13] is racist [02:13] u ment it with hate too [02:13] calling someone a french cunt would be considered racist [02:14] u can call some1 welse in a jibe, but not in hate [02:14] Welsh people are not a race. [02:14] thats when it becomes racist and insulting [02:14] yeah like i call zimri a welsh sheep shagging moron all the time [02:14] ur doing it again [02:14] which to me and him means im calling him a carrot up a sheeps arse [02:14] but thats in jest [02:14] Doing it again? [02:15] I apologise for being correct in knowing that the Welsh are not a race =\ [02:15] race doesnt mean colour [02:15] indeed [02:15] Race is relation to culture. [02:15] and wales has its own culture thank you very much [02:15] is ascertained in relation to culture* [02:16] on a sidenote is "stupid yank" racist? [02:16] yes [02:16] ur tranna cover ur tracks now we have unmasked u as an unpleasant racist [02:16] but..................... [02:16] depends in what context its said in ofc [02:16] b0nes I know how to walk the fine line :) [02:16] that their yank n stupid :) [02:16] if i said it to my american friends in a jest way its ok [02:16] Thaldarin wales has its own culture [02:16] it has its own language [02:17] I did not deny it had no culture nor language. [02:17] Re-read what I *typed. [02:17] there mecking Thaldarin, and theres all out hate induced racial insults [02:17] and u did the later [02:17] mocking*